Part 3 of The Martha Zoller Show Transcript of Dick Morris and Bill Shipp on the 1980 US Senate Race between Herman Talmadge and Zell Miller.
Zoller: We're talking to Dick Morris and Bill Shipp about the 1980 US Senate Race and you are saying, why are you talking about something 22 years ago? Because it's a very interesting relationship and they have never talked about this publicly before.
Morris: No, this has never been revealed publicly before.
Shipp: And never will be revealed again, (laughter)
Zoller: Bill, Dick Morris used the word inappropriate, that the relationship was inappropriate, Bill, was it inappropriate?
Shipp: It a, looking back, it may have been inappropriate, because the Atlanta papers in their zeal to up end Talmadge were ready to break all kinds of barriers to do that and I was certainly at the forefront of that-to break any sort of bounds to make sure that Georgia ridded itself of Talmadge, the last of the Talmadges.
Zoller: Dick, you made the point several times-
Shipp: But let me make one other point, Martha-that is not too much different than what I see the New York Times doing today and Dick knows more about this than I-it's that they set the agenda for the debate against Bush.
Morris: Yes, I do believe that for people that are listening to this show, or people who get the transcript, because I do think that it will become part of the history of media and the press. This is not the norm in politics, but it does suggest that things just shy of this are the norm. Which is you get into a campaign and you have this almost choreographed dance with the media that supports you and you take your cues from their editorials they take your cues from your advertisements and it's a mutually, a mutual admiration society-you never talk, you never communicate, these kind of weekly meetings don't happen on other campaigns, most campaigns. But clearly in many campaigns many media take a position and flag that position and openly try to advance it and not just in their editorials but in their news.
Zoller: Is it fair to say that in this instance there was clearly a good guy and a bad guy as far as Talmadge, he was at the end of his career. He had disgraced the State of Georgia as far as a lot of things that had happened, but I think what has happened, Dick, is that we have gotten to the point that anybody is fair game for any reason and you can trump up anything to support your point of view.
Morris: No, no, Martha. In this case there was a very bad man, Herman Talmadge and a very good man, Zell Miller and the morality of this one was clear, but what I'm trying to say is that the media should not have the close relationship with a political campaign that it did in this case or that is does in many, many different campaigns. We were just discussing off the air the duet that the New York Times and the liberals in Congress are doing over Iraq. Where the Times in effect does push polling, which is polling that is not accurate; it asks biased questions in a slanted order knowing the outcome of those questions and then uses the publication of that push polling to try to influence what Democratic politicians talk about, not so much because the Times is saying it but because the politicians read the polls. And they say "wow, I didn't know that the public want to talk about the economy, not the war on terror. Okay, now I can vote against this use of force resolution." And it's really an attempt by the Times to use its credibility and its reputation for integrity to advance a point of view that really is in this case at variance with what the American people want.
Shipp: And if you will even notice on the Times editorial page that their columnists one after another, they give the politicians talking points to criticize the Bush administration for its foreign policy.
Morris: That's right, that's true. So what I am saying is that the form of what went on in 1980 isn't the norm but newspaper men or journalists have opinions and publishers have opinions, particularly when you have a newspaper chain that was so closely related to the survival and success of its community and so wanted to purge it of the nefarious influences of the Talmadges. They really went to town on this one.
Shipp: Let me also say that political columnist as long as I know, do have a relationship with consultants, hopefully they have one with the consultants on both sides that is a semi-social relationship so that they have some idea of what's going on in the background even of the opposition candidate.
Zoller: Bill, do you think that this 1980 race was the turning point from the shift in power from the power base of South Georgia that we are seeing continue today, was this turning point?
Shipp: It was certainly a signal that things were changing. But don't forget that the man that ultimately beat Herman Talmadge was from South Georgia, by the name of Mack Mattingly. He was known as the unknown candidate, since nobody knew who he was.
Morris: and he lost 6 years later.
Shipp: Right, and in the end it was Talmadge vs. Talmadge. It was a referendum on Talmadge.
Zoller: It wouldn't have mattered. It was like the Billy McKinney runoff a few weeks ago.
Shipp and Morris: Yes
Zoller: It didn't matter who was running against him. It's funny that in 2000, Zell Miller beat Mack Mattingly for the position that he now holds. So, everything that goes around comes around.
Thanks all around and excerpts of the interview are available on marthazoller.com under October 9 and 10 radio.
Thanks for taking the time to read this today. You can let me know what you think by emailing me at [email protected].
http://accesswdun.com/article/2002/10/188401