Transcript of Interview with Bill Shipp, currently of Bill Shipp's Georgia and Dick Morris of vote.com and Fox News Analyst regarding their relationship during the first Zell Miller campaign for United States Senate in 1980
Martha Zoller: Welcome back to The Martha Zoller Show (MZS), during this half hour we won't be taking calls because we have two very special guests. Joining me by phone is Dick Morris, political consultant, thanks for being with me today, Dick.
Dick Morris: Thanks, it's good to be with you again, Martha
Zoller: And also joining me, the Dean of Georgia politics, and my good friend that I have learned so much from, Bill Shipp is joining me, too.
Bill Shipp: Well, thank you and good morning, Martha.
Zoller: Good Morning. What we are going to talk about today is in 1980, Dick Morris-I don't know if it was your first campaign, but one of your first campaigns you worked on-
Morris: One of the first, that's right.
Zoller: Was for an unknown on the national scene, but well known in Georgia-
Morris: He was Lt. Governor.
Zoller: Zell Miller, not his first statewide run, but his first national office-I think he ran for Congress before-
Morris: No I don't think he had-
Shipp: Yes, he had run twice for Congress before-
Morris: He did?
Zoller: but he lost.
Shipp: But you're right, he was still unknown.
Zoller: (laughs) He was still unknown, unlike the way he is today, he is very well known. Dick, you were helping, consulting on his campaign and Bill, you were the Associate Editor of The Atlanta Constitution, correct.
Shipp: That is correct.
Zoller: Now, Bill, remind folks what the times were like around then regarding Senator Herman Talmadge. Zell Miller was challenging Herman Talmadge in the Democratic primary.
Shipp: Herman Talmadge was at that point, had been the senior senator-had been involved in a number of financial scandals growing out of his divorce about taking money in an overcoat pocket and that kind of thing. He'd also been part of the great Talmadge institution that extended back into the 1920s. Zell Miller was the Lt. Governor and decided that he was going to challenge Talmadge in the Democratic Primary which at that time that was absolutely unprecedented and attacked Talmadge and everything he stood for and try to take that senate seat into a different direction. He also was going to try to do something that had never been attempted before, and that was to bring in professional help-and so he brought in the very able Dick Morris to run the campaign.
Morris: Thank you, Bill-and Talmadge was an absolute disaster. I know that you have a lot of new people that moved into Georgia in the last 20 years so there are a lot of young people that may not remember him. But he was part of the racist past of Georgia, he (Talmadge) was a total SOB, the fact he was corrupt was nice, but the main reason that you needed to get rid of him that he was one of the most reactionary and obstructive people in the US Senate. So thank goodness he lost, even though Zell Miller didn't beat him.
Talking over each other-
Shipp: You know, Dick, I would almost argue that Zell Miller lost the primary, but he did beat Talmadge.
Morris: Yes-
Shipp: --that he wounded him so badly in that primary that he went onto lose to a man who was not that well known-a man named Mack Mattingly-
Morris: Right-
Shipp: Who was not even from these parts-I would submit to you that Miller and the absolutely fine campaign that you ran absolutely wounded Talmadge.
Morris: Right-it did, Miller made the runoff against Talmadge, but then lost in the Primary, but ultimately Talmadge was dead. There's been a lot of stuff written in the last couple of years about the close relationship between media and politics and much of it has been sort of dumping on the liberal media and their relationship to Democratic politicians. And I was recounting to Martha when I was on her radio show a few weeks ago how in that campaign, every week I'd come in and I'd meet with Zell and then I'd meet with Maynard Jackson, who was the Mayor of Atlanta back then and then I'd go meet with Bill and we would sit together and I would go through the polls with Bill and I would go through the data and the numbers we had and I would go through the ads we were planning to run through the week and the speeches we were planning to make and it was a weekly briefing and Bill, uh, The Atlanta Constitution, rightly had convinced itself that Herman Talmadge was a blight on the state and it was necessary to get rid of him. But there was the closest of coordination between our campaign and that newspaper. I was citing that as an example (on the Martha Zoller Show) of how close things like that can get during an election. Now I submit to the listeners that is was the right side, it was the right thing to do. This guy needed shootin', but he got it with both barrels-one from the campaign and one from the newspaper.
Shipp: Well, the newspaper had a story or an editorial or a column almost everyday during that campaign and this went on for like 90 days-against Talmadge, critical of Talmadge.
Morris: But the best were the cartoons that you did-those were better-
Shipp: And the cartoons of (inaudible), I don't think I've ever seen a campaign repeated just like that-but the owners of the Atlanta Constitution and the Journal, the Cox family, who were liberal Democrats, has made a decision-or at least the editors had made a decision that Talmadge was no longer fit for Georgia and they were going to rid the stage of him and they ultimately did.
Read on for the conclusion of the groundbreaking interview on The Martha Zoller Show with Bill Shipp and Dick Morris.
http://accesswdun.com/article/2002/10/188366